Octopus Utilizes Coconuts

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Octopus Utilizes Coconuts

Post by Hero on February 6th 2010, 5:59 pm

I am sure you guys have heard of this but it's so cool that they do it. The only invertebrates to have utilized tools. I would bing it if you want to learn more.






Octopuses have been discovered tip-toeing with coconut-shell halves suctioned to their undersides, then reassembling the halves and disappearing inside for protection or deception, a new study says.

____________________________
i'm from San Diego California Cole
Check out our Information Center, Marine Livestock, & Contribution pages.
avatar
Hero
Site Admin

Posts : 3231
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-04-04
Location : San Diego, CA

Back to top Go down

Re: Octopus Utilizes Coconuts

Post by Bluntokian on February 6th 2010, 8:18 pm

Looks like a crab rofl.
avatar
Bluntokian
Pacific Sunfish

Posts : 1315
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-08-29
Age : 24
Location : Charlotte NC

Back to top Go down

Re: Octopus Utilizes Coconuts

Post by ~ocean on February 7th 2010, 8:29 pm

i've seen this article on BBC and CBC

____________________________
Cowfish.
avatar
~ocean
Moderator

Posts : 838
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-09-27
Location : Stoon

Back to top Go down

Re: Octopus Utilizes Coconuts

Post by Hero on February 7th 2010, 10:50 pm

I think it's pretty neat though.

____________________________
i'm from San Diego California Cole
Check out our Information Center, Marine Livestock, & Contribution pages.
avatar
Hero
Site Admin

Posts : 3231
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-04-04
Location : San Diego, CA

Back to top Go down

Re: Octopus Utilizes Coconuts

Post by ~ocean on February 7th 2010, 11:43 pm

yeah

____________________________
Cowfish.
avatar
~ocean
Moderator

Posts : 838
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-09-27
Location : Stoon

Back to top Go down

Re: Octopus Utilizes Coconuts

Post by Jacobnano on February 8th 2010, 1:22 am

First invert to utilize tools, makes them super advanced, and with such a short lifespan it is amazing.
avatar
Jacobnano
Ornate Boxfish

Posts : 439
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-09-22
Location : Yakima, WA

Back to top Go down

Re: Octopus Utilizes Coconuts

Post by Bluntokian on February 8th 2010, 10:23 am

Well look at how much more advanced we are compared to turtles, And they live insanely long. (not very scientific I know but I wanted to join in Sad)
avatar
Bluntokian
Pacific Sunfish

Posts : 1315
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-08-29
Age : 24
Location : Charlotte NC

Back to top Go down

Re: Octopus Utilizes Coconuts

Post by Hero on February 8th 2010, 10:39 pm

Laughing. Who knows what else Octopi will evolve to become next?

____________________________
i'm from San Diego California Cole
Check out our Information Center, Marine Livestock, & Contribution pages.
avatar
Hero
Site Admin

Posts : 3231
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-04-04
Location : San Diego, CA

Back to top Go down

Re: Octopus Utilizes Coconuts

Post by J-P on October 5th 2011, 9:27 am

I am not certain it is the "first to use tools" it depends on what a "tool" is.

Many inverts collect debris and objects to create dwellings, camouflage, and in general become less obtrusive.

Yes, octopi are VERY smart.. but as for tool usage.. I'm not certain about that one.
avatar
J-P
Bay Pipefish

Posts : 59
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-04-29
Age : 46
Location : Bancroft

http://www.invertplanet.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Octopus Utilizes Coconuts

Post by Hero on October 5th 2011, 7:51 pm

J-P wrote:I am not certain it is the "first to use tools" it depends on what a "tool" is.

Many inverts collect debris and objects to create dwellings, camouflage, and in general become less obtrusive.

Yes, octopi are VERY smart.. but as for tool usage.. I'm not certain about that one.

That's a good point. It also brings up the fact that it is the first documented invertebrate to use tools. It's still a great example of ingenuity.

____________________________
i'm from San Diego California Cole
Check out our Information Center, Marine Livestock, & Contribution pages.
avatar
Hero
Site Admin

Posts : 3231
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-04-04
Location : San Diego, CA

Back to top Go down

Re: Octopus Utilizes Coconuts

Post by J-P on October 8th 2011, 1:35 pm

Would a caddisfly nymph building a cocoon out of pond stones and sticks count as using a tool? It carries it with it and uses it as a portable home like a snail would use a shell or we would an RV ... Now watch an octopus complete a maze (and cheat) that is awesome Smile
avatar
J-P
Bay Pipefish

Posts : 59
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-04-29
Age : 46
Location : Bancroft

http://www.invertplanet.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Octopus Utilizes Coconuts

Post by Hero on October 8th 2011, 10:07 pm

By some definitions I guess it would be considered as using a tool.

Is there actually a video on the maze completing (cheating) octopus?

____________________________
i'm from San Diego California Cole
Check out our Information Center, Marine Livestock, & Contribution pages.
avatar
Hero
Site Admin

Posts : 3231
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-04-04
Location : San Diego, CA

Back to top Go down

Re: Octopus Utilizes Coconuts

Post by J-P on October 9th 2011, 12:38 pm

there is.. but I couldn't find it in all the junk out there.

There was a maze.. the octo completed it... around the 5th time trial the octo lifted the lid and went straight to the end. It was very good.
avatar
J-P
Bay Pipefish

Posts : 59
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-04-29
Age : 46
Location : Bancroft

http://www.invertplanet.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Octopus Utilizes Coconuts

Post by Michael Milligan on October 9th 2011, 3:10 pm

J-P wrote:I am not certain it is the "first to use tools" it depends on what a "tool" is.

Many inverts collect debris and objects to create dwellings, camouflage, and in general become less obtrusive.

Yes, octopi are VERY smart.. but as for tool usage.. I'm not certain about that one.

A tool is normally something that is used for a purpose, but is not used up while being used. All the uses you listed are equivalent to thing like bricks. Brinks are materials, while the trowel and the wheel barrow are the tools used in handling them.... I think that is how it works, otherwise everything uses tools and we wouldn't have come up with the word! Smile
avatar
Michael Milligan
Starry Flounder

Posts : 306
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2010-07-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Octopus Utilizes Coconuts

Post by Michael Milligan on October 9th 2011, 3:14 pm

Jacobnano wrote:First invert to utilize tools, makes them super advanced, and with such a short lifespan it is amazing.

Short generations is often an asset for a species. Makes for greater adaptability.This is why scientists use fruit flies and bacteria to study evolution, and not turtles Smile
avatar
Michael Milligan
Starry Flounder

Posts : 306
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2010-07-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Octopus Utilizes Coconuts

Post by ~ocean on October 10th 2011, 1:58 pm

You should check this video out:


____________________________
Cowfish.
avatar
~ocean
Moderator

Posts : 838
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-09-27
Location : Stoon

Back to top Go down

Re: Octopus Utilizes Coconuts

Post by J-P on October 16th 2011, 9:53 am

LOL!! that is so BS!!

Thanks for the share!
avatar
J-P
Bay Pipefish

Posts : 59
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-04-29
Age : 46
Location : Bancroft

http://www.invertplanet.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Octopus Utilizes Coconuts

Post by J-P on October 16th 2011, 10:04 am

Hero wrote:
Octopuses have been discovered tip-toeing with coconut-shell halves suctioned to their undersides, then reassembling the halves and disappearing inside for protection or deception, a new study says.

Michael Milligan wrote:
Jacobnano wrote:First invert to utilize tools, makes them super advanced, and with such a short lifespan it is amazing.

Short generations is often an asset for a species. Makes for greater adaptability.This is why scientists use fruit flies and bacteria to study evolution, and not turtles Smile

But isn't that exactly what hermit crabs do? Without the reassembling part? Or decorator crabs (with the reassembling part)? You do make a good point though about the brick vs. trowel. Thinking
avatar
J-P
Bay Pipefish

Posts : 59
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-04-29
Age : 46
Location : Bancroft

http://www.invertplanet.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Octopus Utilizes Coconuts

Post by Hero on October 16th 2011, 1:33 pm

~ocean wrote:You should check this video out:


Funny video. That mantis shrimp appears to be pretty large.

J-P wrote:
But isn't that exactly what hermit crabs do? Without the reassembling part? Or decorator crabs (with the reassembling part)? You do make a good point though about the brick vs. trowel. Thinking

The key part is that the octopus reassembles the halves. I would call it a different case as the shell is an integral part of the hermit crab that it cannot survive without. Octopus are utilizing objects from the environment around them.

____________________________
i'm from San Diego California Cole
Check out our Information Center, Marine Livestock, & Contribution pages.
avatar
Hero
Site Admin

Posts : 3231
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-04-04
Location : San Diego, CA

Back to top Go down

Re: Octopus Utilizes Coconuts

Post by Michael Milligan on October 17th 2011, 4:08 pm

J-P wrote:
Hero wrote:
Octopuses have been discovered tip-toeing with coconut-shell halves suctioned to their undersides, then reassembling the halves and disappearing inside for protection or deception, a new study says.

Michael Milligan wrote:
Jacobnano wrote:First invert to utilize tools, makes them super advanced, and with such a short lifespan it is amazing.

Short generations is often an asset for a species. Makes for greater adaptability.This is why scientists use fruit flies and bacteria to study evolution, and not turtles Smile

But isn't that exactly what hermit crabs do? Without the reassembling part? Or decorator crabs (with the reassembling part)? You do make a good point though about the brick vs. trowel. Thinking

If you extend the definition of "tool use" to include hermit crabs, then you would have to say that everything uses tools when they breath or drink and that plants use sunlight as a tool.
avatar
Michael Milligan
Starry Flounder

Posts : 306
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2010-07-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Octopus Utilizes Coconuts

Post by J-P on October 18th 2011, 10:01 am

just curious but how would you extend / equate a hermit crab to a plant using the sun?

I don't want to sound argumentative, I'm not. If a plant could pick itself up out of the substrate and move to a more preferable substrate that would be closer to what a hermit crab does. It can pick and choose its home. It is using something it has not produced (unlike a snail), for a specific purpose and intent. BUT, granted there is no 3rd party object involved as in the fish video using the rock to break open a shell. That is true tool use.

If a hermit crab and plant equate, than so does the octopus. Evolution hasn't made it dependent on the object in question (yet), it "uses" it. It uses it to hide. No third party object involved. Thus, no difference IMO. Now if the Octopus used the shell as a shield or to smack the eel attacking it, that would be totally different. Thus I am not certain that the coconut is actually a "tool"
avatar
J-P
Bay Pipefish

Posts : 59
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-04-29
Age : 46
Location : Bancroft

http://www.invertplanet.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Octopus Utilizes Coconuts

Post by Hero on October 19th 2011, 12:30 am

I am certain the coconut is a tool. It's not part of the octopus' physical anatomy and it is something from its environment it utilized. The hermit crab's shell is an integral part of the hermit crab and isn't really a tool. By that logic, our limbs would be tools.

According to Encyclopedia Britannica, a tool is an instrument for making material changes on other objects, as by cutting, shearing, striking, rubbing, grinding, squeezing, measuring, or other process. By that definition, neither the crab or octopus could be said to use tools.

____________________________
i'm from San Diego California Cole
Check out our Information Center, Marine Livestock, & Contribution pages.
avatar
Hero
Site Admin

Posts : 3231
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-04-04
Location : San Diego, CA

Back to top Go down

Re: Octopus Utilizes Coconuts

Post by Michael Milligan on October 20th 2011, 4:04 pm

J-P wrote:just curious but how would you extend / equate a hermit crab to a plant using the sun?


I wouldn't. I was saying that any definition of tool use that included the hermit crab would as a consequence include plants. The crab uses shells as a basic requirement, as the plant uses the sun. It's not optional and every member of the species uses the same thing in exactly the same way. I don't imagine a lot of forethought on the crabs part, he just backs his ass into it. He doesn't need, nor does he have, a purpose in mind, merely the instinct to perform an action. When a chimp or a crow fashion a tool to pick out bugs, they are doing so with the future in mind, and in intended result. And a tool is a means to an end, not the end itself. Using something does not make it a tool, using it with forethought and intention and for an end apart from using the tool, makes it a tool. Hitting things does not a hammer make. Using a hammer to make things via hitting does.
avatar
Michael Milligan
Starry Flounder

Posts : 306
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2010-07-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Octopus Utilizes Coconuts

Post by J-P on October 21st 2011, 9:15 am

ahhh got ya. Excellent explanation Very Happy

Thank you.
avatar
J-P
Bay Pipefish

Posts : 59
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-04-29
Age : 46
Location : Bancroft

http://www.invertplanet.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Octopus Utilizes Coconuts

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum